Friends, Family & Carers Forum

[Gemima]

When my son was very very ill I took over handling his money and banking paying his bills ect as he has improved in his health. He has taken back control of his bank account but has now decided to gamble a lot his pay virtually goes. Then all the scheduled payments for bills, insurance etc get missed and letters are sent of mispayments then insurance is voided. I was just wondering what other people might do to still respect him as a man but to help him sort out finances. I'm lucky that I can talk to him about it. But he says it his money he just doesn't understand the responsibilities that he needs to take on. I don't know what to do

[July7]

Gemima, Here is my story -  I'm going through a similar thing and very frustrated as well. It's now been over a year and a psychological battle has been going on now for a few months.  My son has schizophrenia too and came home when he ended up in the hospital after going missing for 12 days from where he was living.  Initially he agreed to all things with me assisting him and all was running smoothly.  He was paying his way and everything was in order.  I was able to view and set up bill payments from his bank account and being his nominated person for centrelink was able to liaise with staff regarding any issues, explaining his story to various persons over the phone and on site,  uploading medical certificates etc. Talking to eager Job agencies trying to get him on the books.    However this has again changed for the 2nd time in 12 months as he rung centrelink again and took me off as the nominated person  and changed his password on his bank.  He has also told me that he can sort things out for himself and I don't need to be involved as he can handle it.  Unfortunately when he's run out of money in 24 - 48hrs of receiving it, this does involve me as i then have him asking me to buy tobacco for him, which he needs at least 4-5 pkts in the fortnight to cope.  That's over $125 P/F and needs to be put aside by him and not being done.  Also he faces being cut off his payments as there is no way at this stage he will attend centrelink/Job agency appointments. Which will happen if I don't hand in his medical certificate but then "who am I" now.   He is not ready for this and the Doctor and Case manager are in agreeance he's not ready to work.    I've been told  the public trustee may be the only option to get the finances under control.  My sons Case Manager has the power to sign all the paperwork to do this,  however as I pointed out to him this will pay the bills but won't stop him spending his pocket money given to him on gambling/drugs or alcohol.  It will still be up to him to buy food/tobacco etc. which seems to be a low priority for him and then it'll be back to me again as the mother/carer and him living under my roof.   So the fact is, not much changes. Also possible fees will be taken out by Public Trustee's for handling his money for him (I could be wrong but check) , so  Gemima this is the option for your son also, but it's still not an easy answer.  Your son has to agree to have these strangers run his money unless he is an involuntary patient then I think it can be forced.  If he doesn't want you though, to do it, he more than likely won't agree to Public Trustee.   

In my case my main complaint/frustration is Centrelink being able to remove the nominated person off the system so easily without consultation.  Especially   after all the liaising I had done with Centrelink over the past and the info that must be recorded on my sons name.   I know my son has rights, but hello!! he is mentally sick and although he can speak very well to the point of telling me there is nothing wrong with him etc. It should still be a must that the other person involved in his care, especially if medical certificates are submitted, be involved in the decision of deleting their name off the access.    Yes I can appeal but for goodness sakes, what do I have to do to lock it in till such time a Doctor gives the "all ok" to take this action.  Surely, Administration Officer's don't have the medical knowledge to implement this and make decisions to override a psychiatrists word.   So you can see,  I have a similar situation and now trying to work out  how to gain a little control back bit by bit.  If I or the Doctors push too hard, my son will ring places up on the phone, IE: Defence force, lawyers etc asking for advise on how he can take people for malpractice etc as he feels he's being treated for a condition that he doesn't have. Yes this has happened and we now don't have a house phone.  All have prepaid mobiles including my son but at least he is limited to sitting on the phone for a few hours when he get a bee in his bonnet. 

[Gemima]

OMG I have lived exactly the things you have done. Keep strong you are a super human and a warrior. You are doing amazing things and it is only people who have gone through it that really understand the stresses involved.i send you love and blessings my friend things will get better this won't last forever

[Appleblossom]

Money issues often rear up in times of MI.

The only way I know is to strip things down to essentials.

At least then the flow of cause and effect is obvious to all .. and if a person dealing with MI has not had time to figure these things out ... they may eventually get the hang of it... and in my experience with my son, mother and ex husband they did mange to suss it out ..

IMO tobacco and gambling are not essential .. and should not be supplied by a carer... no matter how large the dependency.. on tobacco, other substances or carer.

A lot depends on the age of the person and relationship of the carer.

I try and allow ample room for learning, mistakes and having a home base to return to ...but we  all take responsibility for expenses at some time... in some way or another.

cultivation of .. SELF RESPECT is important.

I also have been removed as my son's nomiated carer. I did not comment, but have maintained a stance of minimal board .. to the point where he began to really notice he would never manage outside my home .. on so little .. and offered to top it up whenever he could .. and does that.

I am hopeful becasue I have not obscured money issues in life that he has figured that out ... only time will tell ..

I think the Public Trustee do charge and it is probably more than would be comfortable coming out of a Centrelink type of budget.

I see behaviours as separate to the person .. people might have a particular style for a short long period .. or it may become entrenched ... 

I think we should be open to a range .. of life styles .. and not expect the same standards for everybody .. letting young adults experiment fall flat on their face .. but carers should not collude with problematic behaviours.

With my ex husband ... I think part of his attraction to me was that I worked with money .. for tax office .. and was down to earth ...and up in the air

he usually had more money than necessary .. wasted heaps on dope and restaurant living  ... let mortagages foreclose etc ... thought in overblown amounts .. always on about million dollar planning etc ..but we both worked in our different ways, ran a company, and did manage to provide solid ground beneath the feet of our children.

There is not only one way to manage money .. or spend it . ...

My husband ridiculed his father's money managemnt style ... and I think the father was very dissappointed in his son for decades .. but in the end they found mutual territory for agreement.  As a wife .. we do witness these things ..

I also have changed .. I cannot count pennies to save myself anymore .. my head aches terribly .. but I do make sure bills get paid ...roof is overhead .. and food on table.

find a way .. to arouse your child's conscience .. but nicely .. to get them to lift their game.

I also haad to explain differences between pity and compassion and respect and self respect .. but I think it was worth it. They are not hings we should take for granted.

So you can help them when they are not well .. but increase the chances of them being able to manage to some extent.

[patientpatient]

I have a similar difficulty and no clear solution. (Son, late 20's, Sz.) For a few years, when I had access to his account, I regularly moved funds into a linked (ING) account and managed to build up a reasonable level of savings. I no longer have access to his accounts and he regularly runs out of money. He can still access the linked account but that takes 24 hours (or longer over weekends) and requires a small degree of pre-planning. I often have to top up his account in the meantime but the expectation is always that the amount will be repaid.  It's not a  big problem when his card is "declined" at the shops but, when regular payments fail, there are financial penalties like ~$18 for declined payment. He did take notice of the declined payment penalty so I'm hoping a lesson was learnt from it.

We often talk about budgeting but, like many people, spending is his way of dealing with anxieties, and he doesn't have much money anyway so over-spending isn't excessive. I have had problems with him signing up for things in shopping centres (World Vision, Peter Mac, etc) when he really can't affford the payments.

Thinking very long term, I may one day have to consider some kind of trustee arrangement if he can't learn to manage money effectively. I'm also nominee for Centrelink and I don't think we could manage without that arrangement because he's very forgetful and not-so-careful with paperwork.

[July7]

Yes Public Trustee may be something that may have to be considered as my son becomes older too and I'm unable to keep and eye on things.  Meaning when I'm too old to do it.  At this stage with him living with me and  my own health is good, I'm able to keep him fed and housed and I am happy to monitor his behaviour.   I'm not sure I'd be happy if he wasn't back home as I'd probably worry about him and be worried that others could take advantage.  It's been done before when he wasn't living at home and nearly had someone moving in on him before  he  bacame ill and went downhill.  

So at this stage, my son is on Depot needles and  thankfully that is keeping  him level.  I'm happy to say that he's not complaining as much when he goes for his appointment to see the Doctor or have the Depot as in the past he would be full of anxiety and then verbally angry in the car going home,  only then to take himself to his room for time out, blaming me for his situation.  It was a ritual I got used to as when he'd come out again,  he'd  be ok.  Still I'm happy to see him on the needle as  it's much easier than him relying on tablets.  That didn't work, he tried and then he deteriorated again so......... 

As for Centrelink, although I haven't bothered to get reinstated as yet,  as my son's nominee, I just ensure the Medical certificates are handed in as I get them from the Doctor's appointment when the time comes.   This is my way of  still assisting  him even if it's in a small way.  My son also  isn't one to keep up with paperwork or bills and at this stage I'm not sure he has the capacity to take care of things like that.   As he is home, he doesn't have to worry about other bills etc. Something he let go when he was living outside of the home. He struggled paying rent and electricity and became very behind.  Again mother to the rescue.  But we do what we do for our children even if they are men.   Good for you also in trying to keep your son on the straight and narrow.  Once can never stop being a mother.

[Gemima]

Wow sounds like you and I walk similar paths, my son has injections to, he moved out of home and it was a disaster and came straight back with bills galore, I do sometimes worry about his future but always aim to think positively, if I was rich enough I'd buy the house next door for him to live in, just so I could be close by.
Thanks for replying to me, you have made my day, I hope that you have a postroad ahead and that things keep improving.
Wow I love this forum just for hearing that other people go through what I do,
I wish you lots of love ❤️And happiness